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Faith in Nibbana - Ajahn Kovilo

The following talk was given by Ajahn Kovilo at Insight Meditation Center in Redwood City, CA on October 28, 2025. Please visit the website www.audiodharma.org for more information.

Faith in Nibbana

My name is Ajahn Kovilo. I'm a Theravada¹ Buddhist monk in the Thai Forest tradition. I ordained at a monastery called Abhayagiri², about three hours north of here in California. I've been ordained for about 16 years and have been living in monasteries for almost 20 years, which is crazy. Now, I'm starting a monastery with my monk brother, Ajahn Nisabho, up in Seattle. If you ever come to Seattle, you're all very welcome to come and visit. It's a really warm and very mature community.

I came down here because my mom lives in the Bay Area—she lives over in Menlo Park. I was very happy to come down because she invited me to her Unitarian church for the first time. She goes to the UUCPA, the Unitarian Universalist Church of Palo Alto. I was very happy to go and teach there. It had a different format. Usually, we do as we do here: about half an hour of meditation, then half an hour of some kind of reflections or a talk, and then some question and answers.

Yesterday at the talk at the Unitarian Church, my mom warned me. She said, "They can only take six minutes of meditation. They can only take six minutes, Kov." She calls me Kov, which is great because that's what everybody else calls me. I said, "I don't care, Mom. We're doing seven. We're doing seven minutes." So, we had seven-minute meditations interspersed with a couple of reflections, then another seven-minute meditation to ease them into peace, which is a nice thing. But all of you were able to do that half an hour.

I am used to living in monasteries. Living at a monastery, training at a monastery, and listening to talks at a monastery has a slightly different flavor than you might have at meditation centers. We're given a little bit more free rein to go back to the oldest teachings and speak to some things which might be a little bit outside of what most people think about most of the time.

I've lived at probably 10 or 15 monasteries in the US and in Thailand. I lived in Thailand for about six years. I'm curious if anybody here might be able to guess what the largest community of non-Buddhist born—i.e., convert—Buddhist monastics (monks and nuns) in North and South America is?

No guesses? Seattle? No, we are very small. It's just me and my monk brother. Abhayagiri is a very good guess. It's a great community, but in the Theravada tradition, Abhayagiri sometimes has between 10 and 20 monks. There's a really sweet and inspiring monastery in the Tibetan tradition called Sravasti Abbey, which is outside of Spokane. They've got something like 22 or 25 monastics.

You might be like, "That's nothing." But these are people who weren't born in Buddhist countries, who all came to Buddhism as adults and are making a very conscious choice to live as monastics. They are not "green" monastics; you've got a very healthy and long-lasting system of monasticism. It's mostly bhikkhunis³ (nuns) who have been in robes for over 15 and 20 years, and that's kind of hard to find. Especially in the Theravada, we can quit being monks or nuns at any time. It's so easy to stop being a monk in the Theravada, especially the Thai tradition. It's the norm that most people who take robes in Thailand will disrobe.

So to find a community in the West of people who are not born Buddhist and have longevity to their life is hard. I think one of the things which allows for the health of that community is that they do a lot of meditation—breath meditation like we did tonight—but they also do something called Lamrim⁴, which is more analytic, thinking-based meditation. They spend a lot of time just thinking about the Buddhist worldview and the Buddhist cosmos.

The Four Harrowing Reflections

In the beginning of this analytical Lamrim meditation, there are what are called the "Four Harrowing Reflections." They spend quite a lot of time actually just thinking these out.

1. The preciousness of a human birth. If you believe in the context of reincarnation—that there are multiple lives—then that has a special potency. This life is precious. You could be all sorts of other beings in the Buddhist understanding of things.
2. The truth of aging, impermanence, and death. Just aging, impermanence, and death. It's true for all of us. We're all going to pass away. Nobody does not pass away—even the Buddha, even celebrities. If I were to ask you to name a celebrity, they're already dead or they will be dead. This doesn't have to be frightening, but it does bring about some weariness when you recollect that life is not permanent.
3. The truth of karma. What you do has effects. When you act with a wholesome mind, it leads to wholesome or happy results. When you act with an unwholesome mind—a mind of greed, anger, and delusion—it leads to suffering.
4. The dangers of Samsara.⁵

They are thinking about this a lot. If you're actively thinking about this alternative worldview... well, maybe some of you were raised with that worldview, but for people born in the West to non-Buddhist, maybe non-Hindu parents, it's a very novel thing. Our worldview does not really include these reflections. We don't reflect on the precious human birth that we have. We don't think about death very much. We don't think about karma very much, and we don't think about Samsara.

But there's no real reason why you haven't, other than just the accident of your birth in a family or society where this is not the norm. You're not encouraged to think about these things. You don't know that they're not true. None of us know that rebirth is not true.

Faith and Confidence

I thought tonight I would speak specifically about what's called saddhā⁶ in Buddhism (śraddhā in Sanskrit). This is sometimes translated as "faith." Some people hear the word faith and just want to leave as soon as possible, but it can also be translated as "confidence."

At the Unitarian Church yesterday, someone quoted Bob Dylan to me: "You gotta serve somebody. It may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but you gotta serve somebody." All of us are walking around with presuppositions and unexamined worldviews that we just picked up from who knows where—from the media, our families, or our friends. It's mostly haphazard. We haven't really given it any thought.

This word saddhā literally means "the placing of the heart." Dhā is the root which means to place, to support, or to nourish, and sad is a prefix which means the heart. So it's literally the placing of the heart and being conscious of how we're doing that. What is your underlying presupposition about the way that the world and the universe works?

The most fundamental faith in Buddhism is something which hopefully everybody can get on board with. I'm not going to try to brainwash you in the next 15 minutes to believe utterly that you might be reborn as a ghost or in heaven or hell. The fundamental faith in Buddhism is very simple: It is possible to abandon unwholesome mental states, and it is possible to cultivate wholesome mental states.

You have to have a belief about that. You can't prove it one way or another until maybe you achieve enlightenment. It could be possible that there's a God and everything is totally predetermined, or everything happens by chance and you don't have any control. But in a Buddhist worldview, we take on this supposition that it is possible to abandon unwholesome habits and cultivate wholesome habits.

This is a really nice view of the world to have because it enables any good habit that you want to create. If you want to be a better soccer player, it's good to believe it is possible to cultivate the skills and abandon the laziness that would inhibit you. If you've never thought about that—if you thought maybe the universe is just totally random or pre-ordained—the Buddha is very actively encouraging us to take on this belief.

When you don't believe in this, the antithesis is depression. When you believe that it's not possible to abandon unwholesome mental states, that's the mire of being stuck in depression. None of us are absolutely free from a depressive mental state until we attain some level of enlightenment. So you can inoculate yourself by actively massaging this into the mind: "The Buddha said it's possible to get better at being happy, and it's possible to get better at not being unhappy."

Believing in Nibbana

I also wanted to talk today about another belief. It's not as wild as saying you might be reborn as an alligator, but it is a belief that Nibbana⁷ is a real thing. Nirvana—the complete ending of greed, anger, and delusion, the ending of the second arrow of suffering—is a real thing.

Does anybody here know Rick Hanson? He wrote Buddha's Brain and Neurodharma. He's a neuroscientist and Dharma teacher. In Seattle, we do interviews with all sorts of Buddhist leaders and authors, and we've interviewed him. He draws this very interesting distinction between "supernatural beliefs" and "transcendent beliefs."

In Theravada Buddhism, and really in most forms of traditional Buddhism, you do find this wider cosmic view of what Rick Hanson calls the supernatural beliefs: that there is this Samsara. But this other realm of beliefs—believing in the transcendent—is a different type of belief. It requires you to put the skeptical mind at bay a little less.

With the worldview of Samsara, that might be a bit far because, other than the animal realm, we haven't seen ghost realms or heaven realms. It's hard to force yourself into that view. But the view that maybe Nibbana is possible?

There's a great sutta called the Apaṇṇaka Sutta⁸, or the "Incontrovertible Sutta." The Buddha presents a kind of "Buddhist Pascal's Wager." Pascal famously argued that it makes sense to believe in God because if there is a heaven, you'll go to it, and if there isn't, there's no real loss. Here, the Buddha says it makes sense to believe in Nibbana.

He says there are contemplatives who say, "No, there's no Nirvana. It's impossible to transcend greed, anger, and delusion." And there are others who say, "Actually, it is possible to transcend greed, anger, and delusion, to transcend the suffering which is unnecessary."

The Two Arrows

It might be useful here to point out the distinction between "first arrow" and "second arrow" suffering. This is a simile from the time of the Buddha. He says that it's as if all of us are shot with a first arrow. All humans, including the Buddha and every enlightened being, experience the first arrow: dukkha⁹, physical pain. If you're not experiencing any physical pain now, probably at some point in the future it will happen. It's just part and parcel of having a human body. The first arrow is unavoidable.

But the second arrow is the mental suffering we add on top of that. That is optional. In Buddhism, we are training in not stabbing ourselves with this problematization of physical pain. The Buddha had backaches, but he didn't make a problem out of it. He had trained his mind. He had attained Nibbana. He knew the full dynamics of how a human mind causes unnecessary suffering for itself. And he taught how we can do it. That's what the Sangha¹⁰ is—this principle of enlightened beings who taught us that we can train the mind to not stab ourselves with this second arrow.

One definition of Nirvana is no longer stabbing ourselves with that second arrow—complete transcendence of the mental suffering which is unnecessary. Another definition is completely transcending greed, anger, and delusion.

Now that the question has been raised—"Does Nirvana exist or does it not?"—you kind of have to think about it. Our beliefs have effects in the world. The first factor of the Noble Eightfold Path is Right View (Sammā Diṭṭhi). The Buddha said Right View comes first and circles around all the other factors. Sammā means "harmonious" or "in tune." It's a harmonious view to say that it is possible.

You can't really force yourself to believe anything. But you can look at these things and think, "Maybe it is possible." Maybe it is possible to never get angry. The word the Buddha used was dosa¹¹, which is much more specific than "anger" in English. You need a differential diagnosis of the English word anger. If you go to a Unitarian church and tell them to get rid of their anger, everybody is going to get pissed: "What about righteous indignation? I need my anger to fight!"

Buddhism is not about getting rid of your discernment. It is about seeing things more and more clearly. The problem with dosa (aversion) is that it prevents you from seeing clearly. When you add the goggles of aversion to your critical mind, the words that come out of your mouth will not be as productive as you think they are. There's a saying in Thai Buddhism: "True but not right." Or, "Right but not true." Nobody wants to hear it when you're being a jerk, even if you have the best argument.

The Buddha says it is possible to completely transcend aversion so that it doesn't even arise. Similarly with greed. Many psychologists will say that's not a healthy view and it's not possible. But they don't know that it's not possible. Just because we haven't experienced something doesn't mean it's not possible.

We always have to relate to any teaching with our own wisdom. You can't force these teachings or lather an enlightened mind onto where we're at right now. If we're not yet enlightened, we will have greed, anger, and confusion come up. We shouldn't pretend it's not there; we need to find healthy ways of dealing with it. But having this longer-range view—that maybe it is possible to actually transcend it—prevents us from working from a presumption that validates and excuses our anger.

Bowing Practice

I thought to end with a little bit of thinking meditation, something we do a lot of at monasteries: bowing. It is a beautiful practice and good exercise—like a "Buddhist burpee." What you're doing is bowing to something meaningful. Traditionally, we bow three times: to the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha.

This is a real call to action. It's a physical action, an orientation. You are orienting your life to something meaningful. I'll give some reflections for you to think about to make each of those three bows meaningful.

1. First Bow (The Buddha): Your Long-Range Goal. What is your longest-range goal in life? It can be Nirvana. It can be being a good person, being a good athlete, whatever it is. When you bow, you are priming your sleep, priming your dreams with this long-range goal.
2. Second Bow (The Dhamma): Your Present Moment Intention. What do I hope to be living into this present moment? What do I want to bring to each and every moment? Ask yourself what is most resonant.
3. Third Bow (The Sangha): Your Communal Goal. It can be, "I bow to the Sangha for the welfare and happiness of all beings," or whatever your familial or communal goal is.

It doesn't matter how you bow—Korean style, Tibetan style, Thai style. But to believe maybe there's something greater than me, greater than just the distraction or willy-nilliness that is our general life.

Q&A

Participant: For me, the idea of believing in Nirvana or not doesn't resonate. But I get a lot of goodness from moments of freedom or seeing things on a spectrum—less greed, hatred, and delusion, and less "me, myself, and I."

Ajahn Kovilo: I'm sure you're not alone. You can relate to it as a working hypothesis. Until we prove it one way or another, we won't really know. It sounds like you're working in the right direction. That relates to the second bow—bowing to the Dhamma as this present moment. "Can I bring spaciousness and non-greed to this moment?" If we keep doing that, we'll get better at it. Maybe at some point, it won't even matter if we believed in it or not; you'll just attain Nirvana when the time comes.

For me, the working hypothesis nature of it is helpful. It keeps me in the robes, which is a great thing. I remember after my first meditation retreat, I had no view about Nirvana. Then someone gave me the biography of Ajahn Mun¹², a Thai forest teacher. Reading the suttas, you hear about people becoming enlightened 2,600 years ago. But reading the biography of this person from the 20th century who seems like he has a lot of integrity... if you wanted to prime yourself one way or the other, you could. But doing as you're doing—living a beautiful life trying to be less greedy, angry, and deluded—is awesome too.

Participant (Elena): Thank you for this inspiring talk. What do you think about a more supernatural definition of Nibbana as deathless, unconditioned, unborn?

Ajahn Kovilo: I believe it. Faith is maybe four-fifths imagination and one-fifth working hypothesis. When I was talking about the transcendent versus supernatural, I think Rick Hanson was referring to things like other realms or psychic powers. Most definitions in the suttas fall under five umbrellas: the highest happiness, the highest truth, the highest freedom, the highest excellence, and that it is a type of knowing. The "unborn, unoriginated, unfabricated"—for me, those are aspects of highest freedom or highest excellence. The Buddha said Nibbana is the highest happiness. For some people, that sounds a lot better to bow to than just "not suffering."

Participant: I read a story about a young girl in Iran who faced terrible suffering... Are some people facing such a harsh life condition that it would be really hard to find practice?

Ajahn Kovilo: Absolutely. The Buddha said you can reflect on how rare it is to find a human life with the mental faculties to understand speech and the physical comforts to practice. You have to work on the fundamental level of physical surroundings (Maslow's hierarchy). The Buddha acknowledged this. When he visited students, the first thing he would ask was, "Are you getting enough alms food?" Then, "Are you getting along and not quarreling?" Only then would he ask about attaining higher states of mental freedom.

There is an instance where someone was starving and not able to listen to the teachings because they didn't have enough food. If there's anything we can do to alleviate others' suffering, that is a beautiful thing and a worthy project. We are extremely fortunate to be here, to have access to the teachings, and to have a safe place to sit in silence.

Participant: Reflecting on what you're saying, I've viewed faith sort of like "trust and verify"—provisional. I've never connected with the more supernatural or transcendental teachings. I haven't found any usefulness contemplating the supernatural stuff. How have you found that useful in your own practice?

Ajahn Kovilo: I think reading the Buddha's discourses... I started off using Access to Insight, a curated list of translated discourses. I became very inspired by the extremely practical advice on speaking harmlessly and giving up greed, anger, and delusion. It's like a map. I'm gaining more and more trust in the mapmaker. He says, "Go this way," and the stuff I've experienced so far is great.

Another simile is long-distance swimmers. You do several strokes with your head down in the water, and you need to lift your head to take a breath to make sure you're headed in the right direction. Heading in the direction of non-greed, non-anger, and non-delusion is a big landmass you're swimming towards. Believing in this mountain gives a sense of psychological well-being. It feels good and is helpful for cultivating peaceful states of mind.

There is actually a meditation on upasama (peace) or upasamanussati (recollection of peace/Nibbana). The stock phrase is: "This is refined, this is sublime, namely the stilling of all formations, the relinquishment of all craving, dispassion, cessation, Nirvana." To imagine that a human really could transcend that is beautiful. I do believe I've met people who have attained enlightenment. I've lived very closely with them and watched them, observing their actions.