This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video Ajahn Sujato: “So they said to the Buddha …” Class 1 of 4. It likely contains inaccuracies, especially with speaker attribution if there are multiple speakers.

“So they said to the Buddha …” Class 1 of 4 - Bhante Sujato

The following talk was given by Bhante Sujato at The Sati Center in Redwood City, CA on May 08, 2024. Please visit the website www.audiodharma.org for more information.

“So they said to the Buddha …” Class 1 of 4

Introduction

No worries. Thanks, Rob, and thanks to the Sati Center for putting this together and sponsoring it. I'm just putting the link for today's sutta in the chat if anyone missed it.

By the way, look what I just happened to have beside me: a book of SuttaCentral's translations. How fortuitous! If you want to read things the proper way—that means the old-fashioned way—you can order the books via SuttaCentral. We all know that reading on paper is better, especially when it's something meaningful. This is why we embrace "old school" technology.

When we launched these books, we did it at the National Library here in Sydney. I went into the reading room just to check it out, and I was distressed to see that of the hundred people sitting there, precisely zero were actually reading books. They were all looking at screens in the library. But anyway, I guess that's the future.

I want to begin by acknowledging the Burramattagal¹ people of the Dharug Nation on whose land I am sitting today. I'm near Parramatta in the west of Sydney, and this was their ancestral land. It has never been ceded. We live as guests on their land, and we pay respects to their Elders past, present, and emerging, and bear in mind their custodianship of the land that lasted for tens of thousands of years. During that time, they transformed this landscape, according to all accounts, into a beautiful, verdant parkland. In the space of one hundred and something years, we managed to convert it all into a concrete wasteland. Maybe we have a lesson to learn there.

It is good to see you all here for this series of talks. We're going to be doing a series of four classes. In each class, we're going to look at one sutta². We're going to start out with a relatively short and simple one and gradually get a bit more complicated as we go.

A Brief History of Sutta Studies

For those who are new to the suttas, let me give you a bit of orientation. The Buddha taught roughly two and a half thousand years ago. He taught over a period of about 45 years, and he gave many teachings which his disciples memorized. Those memorized teachings form the basis of what we call the suttas today. They were organized into collections that we call the Nikāyas³, and those collections were passed down in the Buddhist community.

The suttas are part of the core Buddhist teachings of all the schools of Buddhism. What we are looking at today are teachings that don't belong to one specific school, but to the common heritage of all Buddhists. Nonetheless, the specific tradition that we're drawing from today is the Theravāda tradition, which has handed down its scriptures in the Pali⁴ language. These are the oldest, best preserved, and most consistent set of early Buddhist scriptures that we have.

I have come up with four stages in the modern development of sutta understanding. These are purely personal—maybe they don't apply to anyone else—but they make sense to me.

1. The Archaeological Stage This begins around the mid-19th century and goes to the first part of the 20th century. This means literal archaeology—digging up the soil in India, recovering the places where the Buddha lived—but also textual archaeology: establishing the historical strata of texts.

One of the positive sides of this phase was that it led to massive reforms throughout all forms of Buddhism, known as "Buddhist Modernism." For example, the Forest Tradition in Thailand was a reform movement inspired by a return to things like mindfulness of breathing, an emphasis on ethical conduct rather than magical rituals, and understanding impermanence. This idea that Buddhism responds to the challenges of modernity goes back a long time.

However, the downside is that once you identify "Early Buddhism," you get many imaginative takes on what that actually is. It becomes easy to dismiss traditions as "rubbish" and come up with exotic, ungrounded takes on what the Buddha "really" taught.

2. The Neoclassical Stage In reaction to that, we have the neoclassical or neo-traditionalist phase. This is where people accepted the historical research but emphasized the continuity of the tradition. Great German monks like Nyanaponika and Nyanatiloka, and Sri Lankan scholars like Malalasekera, fit here. They were not afraid to suggest reforms but stopped short of dismissing the tradition totally. This formed the basis for much of modern Theravāda, including the Insight Meditation movement. The drawback is that it tends to mask the fact that modern Theravāda is, in fact, quite different from Early Buddhism.

3. The Comparative Stage This is the comparative stage, exemplified by scholars like Venerable Anālayo, Yin Shun, and Thich Minh Chau. They look at the suttas not just as Pali texts, but as a common heritage, comparing them with Chinese and Tibetan parallels. This brings study out of a sectarian context. It brings us back to the period before the schools split, perhaps 100 or 200 years after the Buddha.

4. The Dialectical Stage This brings us to the approach I will use for this course: a dialectical approach. This sees the suttas as a conversation between the Buddha and his students, and other people in their society.

One interesting thing is that the suttas show the Buddha speaking with people who are not Buddhist. Almost all later Buddhist literature consists of Buddhists talking to other Buddhists. But in the suttas, we find the Buddha talking to Brahmins, Jains, and others about things that are not Buddhist philosophy.

The knowledge of this is rarely pursued within the Buddhist community. When I annotate texts, I constantly find the Buddha quoting, referring to, or having knowledge of Brahminical or Jain texts. Over this course, we're going to look at some of these conversations to see who these people were and how the Buddha responded to them.

The Dhaniya Sutta (Sutta Nipāta 1.2)

For today, we are looking at the Dhaniya Sutta (The Wealthy Rancher).

Let's review SuttaCentral. We are on Sutta 1.2. I'm going to read through the sutta first, and then we can analyze it.

“I’ve boiled my rice and drawn my milk,” said Dhaniya the rancher, “I stay with my family along the bank of the Mahī; my hut is roofed, my sacred fire kindled: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I boil not with anger, and have drawn out hard-heartedness,” said the Buddha, “I stay for one night along the bank of the Mahī; my hut is wide open, my fire is quenched: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“No gadflies or mosquitoes are found,” said Dhaniya, “cows graze on the lush meadow grass; they get by even when the rain comes: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I bound a raft and made it well,” said the Buddha, “and with it I crossed over, went to the far shore, and dispelled the flood. Now I have no need for a raft: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“My wife is obedient, not wanting,” said Dhaniya, “long have we lived together happily, I hear nothing bad about her: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“My mind is obedient and freed,” said the Buddha, “long nurtured and well tamed. Nothing bad is found in me: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I’m self-employed,” said Dhaniya, “and my healthy children likewise; I hear nothing bad about them: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I am no one’s lackey,” said the Buddha, “with what I’ve earned I wander the world. I have no need for wages: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I have heifers and sucklings,” said Dhaniya, “cows in calf and breeding cows. I’ve also got a bull, leader of the herd here: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“I have no heifers or sucklings,” said the Buddha, “no cows in calf or breeding cows. I haven’t got a bull, leader of the herd here: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“The stakes are driven in, unshakable,” said Dhaniya, “the grass halters are new and well woven; not even the sucklings can break them: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

“Like a bull I broke the bonds,” said the Buddha, “like an elephant I snapped the vine. I shall never lie in a womb again: so rain, Sky God, if you wish!”

Right then a thundercloud rained down, soaking the uplands and valleys. Hearing the Sky God rain down, Dhaniya said this:

“It is no small gain for us, that we’ve seen the Buddha. We come to you for refuge, Clear-eyed One! Oh Great Sage, please be our teacher.

My wife and I are obedient; we shall lead the spiritual life under the Holy One. Gone beyond birth and death, we shall make an end of suffering.”

“Your children bring you delight,” said Māra the Wicked, “your cattle also bring you delight. For attachments are a man’s delight; without attachments there’s no delight.”

“Your children bring you sorrow,” said the Buddha, “your cattle also bring you sorrow. For attachments are a man’s sorrow; without attachments there are no sorrows.”

Analysis and Commentary

Structure and Tone First of all, you can see that this sutta has a call-and-response form to it. It sounds like a song or a popular ballad—sometimes it has been described as a pastoral ballad. It has a challenge and counter-challenge feel, but it is phrased quite gently. It presents two very different points of view.

Sometimes, talking to the Buddha could be very annoying. Whatever Dhaniya says, the Buddha takes it and turns it to the exact opposite meaning. He was very clever at this. But he always found something in common with the person he was speaking to. Even here, it might be the literary style; they are playing this game together. His ability to transform what Dhaniya said implies he was truly listening. It works from an empathetic and creative point of view.

Regarding the structure of Buddhist textual collections, they often begin with a difficult, forbidding sutta, followed by a nice, engaging one. You find this in the Dīgha Nikāya, the Majjhima Nikāya, and here in the Sutta Nipāta. The first sutta is challenging, and this second one has a much more popular flavor. The Buddha is speaking to Dhaniya on his level.

Context: The Mahī River Dhaniya says, "I stay with my family along the bank of the Mahī." The Mahī is a notoriously dangerous river. It is sometimes known as the "Bane of Bihar." It has an extremely unpredictable route; it overflows its banks and causes devastating floods. This gives a rich context. Dhaniya claims he is secure ("My hut is roofed"), but the implicit context is that he is actually not safe, because the Mahī is a genuine threat. This imagery is drawn out through the sutta, which is why the thunderstorm at the end provokes such a dramatic reaction. It’s not just rain; it’s a flood that can take away their whole livelihood.

The Ritual Context Dhaniya says, "My sacred fire kindled." The Sanskrit phrase is āhitāgni. This is someone who has set up their fire altar. He has performed his duty as a householder in the sight of the gods. He has appeased the gods through his righteous offering. This gives a spiritual dimension to his claim.

The refrain "So rain, Sky God, if you wish" (vassatu deva) is an ambiguous idiom. Deva can mean the sky/rain or the god of the sky. Dhaniya is invoking the divinity. He is saying, "Now is the time for the rain god to rain because I have done my duties."

If we read the sutta without this religious context, his conversion at the end seems very sudden. One minute he is boiling rice, the next he hears thunder and decides to become a Buddhist. But with the context, we see this was him being a servant of the gods and realizing that perhaps the gods were not looking after him in the way he thought.

Vedic References This relates to texts like the Satapatha Brahmana (1.8.1.9). We are talking about 2,500 years ago. Most "Hindu" texts like the Bhagavad Gita are much later. The earlier texts are the Vedas, the Brahmanas (rituals), and the early Upanishads.

In the Satapatha Brahmana, there is a discussion about offerings (clarified butter, sour milk, curds) and how they create a blessing (Idā) that grants offspring and cattle. Dhaniya is living in a world imbued with sacred meaning. When the rain came, it wasn't just evaporation; it was the gods. When the rice sprouted, it was the Earth Goddess.

We must have empathy for where Dhaniya is coming from. He was no fool; he was articulate, intelligent, and hardworking. But he believed in a system where his ritual created a connection (sandhi) with the divine.

The Buddha's Wordplay The Buddha responds with puns that translation can't quite capture.

• Dhaniya: "I've boiled my rice" (pakkodano).
• Buddha: "I boil not with anger" (akkodhano). The word for "boiled" (pakka) sounds like the word for "anger" (kodha).
• Dhaniya: "Drawn my milk" (khīrapeyo).
• Buddha: "Drawn out hard-heartedness" (vigatakhilo). He puns khīra (milk) with khila (barrenness or hard-heartedness).

This playful exchange is highly valued in the Vedic tradition. The Buddha is playing their game, using a Vedic style of inspiration.

Metaphors of Fire and Flood Dhaniya has his sacred fire kindled; the Buddha says, "My fire is quenched." This contrasts the fire worship with Nibbāna⁵ (extinguishment). Dhaniya seeks security in externals; the Buddha seeks it in inner freedom.

Later, the Buddha says, "I bound a raft... and dispelled the flood." This echoes the famous simile of the raft in the Majjhima Nikāya—the teachings are for crossing over, not for holding onto. "Crossing over," "going to the far shore," and "dispelling the flood" are synonyms for Nibbāna. This imagery responds to the geography of the time (the flood-prone Mahī).

Attachment and Sorrow At the end, Māra appears with verses claiming that attachments (upadhi) bring delight. Upadhi means both inner grasping and the external things we attach to. The Buddha flips it: "Attachments are a man’s sorrow."

The Buddha is not saying children bring only sorrow and no happiness. He is giving a point of reflection. There is gratification, but there is also danger. As long as there is attachment, there will be suffering. That is okay—suffering is natural—but don't convince yourself otherwise.

Q&A

Who is listening and recording this dialogue? The tradition says Ānanda, the Buddha's attendant, recited the suttas at the First Council after the Buddha's death. Suttas often begin with "Thus have I heard" (Evaṃ me sutaṃ). This doesn't mean the speaker was there; it's a tag signifying the text was handed down through the oral tradition. This particular sutta lacks that opening tag, so we are left to our inferences.

What are the three types of texts (Tipiṭaka)?

1. Vinaya: The code of conduct for monks and nuns.
2. Sutta: The discourses (what we are doing now).
3. Abhidhamma: The systematic treatises (added later).

Cows as mothers There was definitely a tender, loving feeling about the cow in ancient India, even if the "sacred cow" concept as we know it today hadn't fully formed. They were valued for their milk.

Is the Buddha denying the spiritual connection to nature? In a sense, the Buddha "secularized" the world, presenting it as operating according to laws and causes, similar to a modern ecosystem view. The older way of seeing divinity in every natural element doesn't apply in the same way. However, we have a different spiritual connection—through mindfulness. When we practice mindfulness of breathing, the breath connects us to the nature surrounding us. To address environmental challenges today, we need to go beyond a purely instrumental view and find a sense of meaning in our relation to the land.

Why did conversations with non-Buddhists stop? Probably because Buddhism became successful. Most people around them became Buddhists, and it's easier to talk to people who share your assumptions. In the suttas, the diversity of Indian philosophy is very much alive, but less so in later literature.

How long after the Buddha's passing was the First Council? Not long—a few months afterwards. They gathered in Rājagaha to systematize the recitation of texts to ensure their preservation.