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Happy Hour: Spacious, Kind Interest... (and Intention vs. Agenda) - Nikki Mirghafori

The following talk was given by Nikki Mirghafori at Insight Meditation Center in Redwood City, CA on November 12, 2024. Please visit the website www.audiodharma.org for more information.

Happy Hour: Spacious, Kind Interest... (and Intention vs. Agenda)

Hello and welcome everyone to this edition of Happy Hour. I would like to invite us to explore the practice of presence this session. Specifically, presence with curiosity—not assuming or forcing anything in particular, but a stance of interest, curiosity, and being with.

Let me give you a couple of pointers as to what I mean. I’d like to invite us to explore the way we pay attention in a nuanced way. For example, are we paying attention to our breath in order to make it a particular way? It can be very, very subtle what I'm inviting us to explore. Are we paying attention to our emotions, to our heart space, in order to dampen it, make it okay, or to get rid of it? Is there a very subtle agenda?

To back up, perhaps a question to sit with is that there are two modes of meditation. One is noticing, being with, really allowing without any agenda—simply noticing and seeing what is. Only when we have really seen the ways we make, force, and don't accept reality—only after we have seen this—are we able to master the second type. The second type of skillful means of meditation is cultivating, such as the practice of thought replacement. There are teachings in Buddhism on that.

But the question always comes up: should I just observe, or should I change? Both of these practices are available in the Buddhist canon. However, not until we have mastered being with, seeing clearly with no agenda—or seeing our agenda, like "Oh yeah, I'm paying attention to my backache in order to make it stop"—can we effectively shift. Once you've seen the agenda, softened, and really released into being okay with not being okay, then the mind is trained to shift and turn. But if you try to shift and turn before you've mastered being with, it might become an aversion practice—"Oh yeah, I want to get rid of this."

This is not to say that the cultivation practice, the cultivation of the heart in mettā¹, is an aversion practice. I'm not equating that at all. But what I'm saying is that sometimes, if we're not careful, the practice of mettā or any other practice can become a big hammer. It can become a hammer that we're using to try to get rid of uncomfortable feelings without holding them and being okay with them first.

So, this is just a very subtle shift, a subtle curiosity or interest that comes up for many practitioners. I've had this question before and I've seen it in my own practice. I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't, don't worry. Drop all the thoughts and "what is she talking about." I'll lead us into a session of stability and presence with a sense of openness and curiosity of being with what is. We'll start there and see where it goes.

Guided Meditation

Let's formally begin arriving and landing in our posture. It's helpful to have an upright posture, to have our feet flat on the earth, firmly planted. Have our chest open—a sense of openness to possibility, to life. Yes, this too. This too.

Allowing and inviting the body to feel itself, to be felt, to be sensed from the inside. Inviting the shoulders and the neck to be soft, the heart to be soft. So the posture is holding both stability—integrity with the way we sit and hold ourselves tall—and yet there's softness, gentleness in the heart. Strong back, soft heart. Strong torso, soft belly.

Allowing the breath to be known. The whole body, the sensations of the breath—let it be known. The in-breath and the out-breath.

Notice the quality of attention, the quality of knowing. Is the knowing imbued with curiosity, patience? Or does it have an agenda to make something go away or make it a particular way? Be curious and spaciously know the quality of knowing.

To be more practical, how is the breath being known? Can it be just as it is?

If thoughts are arising—so many thoughts, past, future, and present—be spaciously interested in the quality of being entangled in thoughts. Are we addictively entangled? Are we absent-mindedly entangled? What is the quality? And after we know, see, and recognize, inviting awareness to know the breath. Simply calming, soothing breath, however it shows up. Deeper, shallow.

Notice that as we spaciously become curious about the quality of knowing, the heart and mind feel more spacious. Knowing itself becomes more spacious, more stable, more grounded. This aspect of gentle curiosity—kind, gentle interest, maybe the word "interest" works better for some—imbues our whole experience with spacious, gentle interest. This is an aspect of care, mettā, love. Spacious, gentle interest. What is this human experience in this moment, in this body, this mind and heart? Spacious, gentle interest without an agenda.

If there's any experience in the emotional realm, pleasant or unpleasant, or in the body, maybe pain or discomfort, can we bring spacious, gentle interest to the experience? Whatever experience is present. Maybe just the breath is known.

You can explore and experiment with substituting "gentle" with "kind." Maybe spacious, kind presence. Or interest—spacious, friendly interest. Or presence. See what works best for you. It might shift and change.

And as we turn to bring this meditation to a close, meeting ourselves, meeting our attitude with spacious, friendly, relaxed interest. Noticing what's arising and bowing, appreciating whatever is arising. Knowing it and trusting there are seeds of wholesome knowing, a different kind of relationship to ourselves and therefore to others in the world. These seeds being planted with kindness and generosity.

Offering the goodness of our practice to all beings. May all beings everywhere be well, happy, and free, including ourselves.

Thank you everyone for your practice.

Reflections

So this way of attending, this way of knowing, this practice is very gentle. It seems like a very subtle practice, but it's very powerful. As we really open up to this gentle, spacious, friendly presence—interest, curiosity—it is very spacious, very open. We start to see with friendliness, with kindness, without judgment, some of the assumptions that we have. Some of the attitudes we have, some of the pains and aches that we have. It shifts our relationship to them. It wakes us up from being in the middle of them, caught in them, to a different relationship to them.

This is very powerful, and it helps to hang in there with that attitude of knowing and spacious, friendly, gentle presence. It's not a "big bang hammer" approach. It's a very gentle opening to and seeing things, perhaps that we usually don't see because they're so subtle in our assumptions.

I wonder if something showed up for you. Before we head to groups, I want to ask you a question. Was there a particular phrasing of the invitations that worked for you? You were invited to shift them and change them. If you'd like to put them in the chat, that would be nice, seeing for the community. The words I had offered were "spacious, gentle curiosity" and then later "spacious, friendly interest."

One of you said "kind" is the word that helped. Great. Another says, "Bringing kindness was very helpful for me." Nice, thank you. A second vote for kindness. Just suggestions for spaciousness was enough, with a gentle, kindly attitude.

Another reflection: "What worked for me was the repetition. You kept repeating the phrases." Nice. One of you says, "As it is." Great. "Generous interpretation." "Interest helps spur some opening." Nice, love it. On YouTube, one of our friends says, "Open, gentle interest." Great. The word "open." "Spaciousness," says another fellow practitioner.

I love it, and I love how we've shifted and changed the words to work for us in any way that supported us. That's great. I trust there's more that perhaps became available seeing things that were perhaps in the midst of, or something else that was holding, that just kind of got soft with this open, spacious, gentle interest. To bring more kindness and stability to help ourselves, support ourselves, and others.

So now I'd like to invite us to enter into the practice of mettā in small groups. The invitation is to practice mettā for ourselves and others, mindfully speaking and listening, really treating the breakout groups as an extension of the sitting practice. Embracing compassion. If any internal resistance, reaction, or discomfort comes up—internal or external—hold it with kindness and compassion.

The topic for this first round is: I'd like to invite you to share, if you would, what word or phrase was helpful for you. Just offer that as support for you to be held witness. Nobody has to be right or wrong; there's no word or phrase that's better than any other. It's whatever works.

For the second round in the group, the invitation is, if you feel like it, you can reflect out loud if there was something that became clear with this way of seeing. I'll share with you that a few days ago I was practicing and I noticed the way I was being with my breath was just a little forced. Even though I was "just being with it" supposedly the way it was, when I shifted to the stance of open, gentle curiosity, then I noticed, oh, there was just a tiny bit of agenda. A tiny little bit to make the breath fuller or whatever. Like, ah, that's not needed. It was so subtle.

Or, for example, seeing an attitude in the mind that maybe the mind and the heart were a little cranky, or in the midst of a conversation or something that had happened earlier. Like, "Oh wow, that's still resonating. Not needed, not needed." So these very subtle things we can see when we open with this attitude of spaciousness.

Be kind to yourself, be kind to one another. Really, the breakout groups is where the rubber meets the road in these days, especially with what has been happening in this country. Community is so important. Finding support. And even if we don't directly offer support about the events of the world, just our kind, spacious presence is support enough.

Welcome back everyone. The rooms are closed. We have time and space for reflections and questions. How was the practice today for you? What did you discover either in the silent practice or in the interactive practice?

Audrey: I was struck by something that you said about putting aside the "agenda." I was wondering how that might be different from an "intention"?

Nikki: Yeah, I appreciate the question. What I mean by the agenda, and how it's different from an intention, is the following: Agenda is kind of a secret agenda, somehow, that we don't quite see but it's operating. And it's not necessarily very wholesome. Does that clarify what I mean and how it lands for you?

Audrey: A yet another subtlety to be, uh, try to notice.

Nikki: Yeah, yeah. Does it land? Do you feel the difference in your heart?

Audrey: I love it. Oh darn, another one I have.

Nikki: [Laughter] But they're lovely, right? When you see them, like, "Wow, another layer of the onion. This is so cool and so interesting, this being human thing." Wow, the mind thing.

I'll tell you one common one that happens. The wholesome intention might be, say there is pain in the body. My wholesome intention is to learn from it, to be with it, to cultivate kindness and compassion for myself and for others who are hurting. That's a beautiful intention, right? And yet the agenda which might creep in is like, you notice, "Oh, I'm really paying attention in order to make it stop. Make it go away now because I hate it and I don't want to be here and I'm afraid of being sick and being in bed for the rest of the week." Like, oh wow. Oh, I see you. So, that's an example. Thanks Audrey, great question.

Neil: At the very beginning you talked about keeping track of... that when you pay attention to your breath you're not trying to change it. And I find when I pay attention to my breath it almost always changes. And depending on where I pay attention to, depends on how it changes. But I'm not trying to change it.

Nikki: Yes, yes, and yes. So this is absolutely true. When we attend to, when we know the breath, and the mind and the heart settle, the breath shifts. It changes. Of course it does. Of course, of course it does.

That is different from what I'm saying. I'm saying that sometimes we do pay attention to the breath with an agenda. Sometimes, you know, if we've had say training in prāṇāyāma² to make the breath longer and subtle, to really notice the breath in a particular place. But sometimes the agenda again could be very subtle. So, to notice that.

But that notwithstanding, even if you pay attention to the breath without any agenda, of course it settles and it shifts. So these two are a bit orthogonal. So no problem here, Neil.

Neil: Quite. I find when I pay attention to my abdomen my breath tends to be more abdomen... that's a word. And when I pay attention to my chest the breath tends to be higher up.

Nikki: Yeah, yeah. So you're saying that just happens. Of course that just happens. Not a problem. There's no problems here, there's no issue here. This invitation to pay attention to the quality of paying attention is to uncover any subtle unhelpful agendas that might be there. There may be nothing, right? As you're reporting, there may be nothing. But there might be something that's subtly shifted. Does that make sense?

Neil: Yes.

Nikki: Great, thank you. One direct message that came to me: "Nikki, sometimes negative story-making can be very powerful. And knowing that it's negative, I can have trouble receiving it with openness."

So, negative story-making. I'm going to try to assume what the question is and comment on it. Say I'm sitting and having this spacious quality of attention, and I'm realizing, oh yeah, there is a story making. It's like da da da da da da, there's kind of a negative story making. And oh, ouch.

Can in that moment there be either kindness? You know, this gentle kindness that I'm offering. When it comes to the pain of the story-making, it naturally becomes compassion. Naturally becomes this holding. The gentle, spacious interest becomes a caring, gentle interest. Can it hold the negative story in ourselves in that way? That would be the invitation.

Another way to work with it is this gentle, spacious interest. When it notices that, yeah, this is kind of a negative story, can it really hold it with spaciousness? Like, it's okay. Yeah, causes and conditions. Lots of spaciousness. And then this negativity in the story can soften on its own and settle. So these are a couple of ways to work with it.

Fred: So I guess I'm asking here, am I forcing something or am I taking the opportunity? So last night I woke up at 3:00 and I realized I'm not going to go back to sleep. I'm just really awake. And I thought, well, I don't want to perseverate about that. I sort of felt my body as it was and I thought, well, I'm just going to use this time and I'm going to direct goodwill to batches of people. And I really spent a long time doing that. And maybe I fell asleep at some point, I'm not sure. But it wasn't really a goal. And that seems a reasonable thing to do with an imperfect situation.

Nikki: Yeah absolutely, Fred. This is lovely. Thank you for sharing this. And the nuance that you shared which I loved was, you know, I did this practice to take advantage of this opportunity. I'm awake in the middle of the night, cultivating. And it wasn't so much of an agenda, like "I might fall asleep." I know having a light heart can be helpful, but it wasn't so much like "I'm doing this in order to fall asleep." So that agenda wasn't there. I'm hearing this. And yet, what a wholesome way to really cultivate, to do the cultivation practice without this hammer of an agenda.

I'm going to bring back what Audrey brought, which is lovely. You had the intention of using this time in the middle of the night. Yeah, I'm awake. Yeah, what a great time to practice. I do this often too. I just put away sleep for a moment. Like, yeah, I'm going to celebrate that I'm awake and practice. And it's not because... if there was the agenda of falling asleep then it would be like, "Am I asleep yet? I'm doing this mettā thing but I'm still awake!" Right? That's the difference. That's the difference between wholesome intention and agenda. And you beautifully brought it up with this example. They may be subtle but they're not subtle at all, actually. To me, it sounds very clear. Thank you, Fred. I really appreciate you sharing this.

I realized I went over time. So I want to thank you all for your practice, for your sharing of yourself with one another. For the sake of all beings everywhere, may all beings be happy, may all beings be free, including ourselves.

Thanks everyone.