This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video Andrea Fella: "The Mind of Freedom" Class 2 of 3. It likely contains inaccuracies.

The Mind of Freedom (2 of 3) - Andrea Fella

The following talk was given by Andrea Fella at The Sati Center in Redwood City, CA on September 20, 2024. Please visit the website www.audiodharma.org for more information.

The Mind of Freedom (2 of 3)

Hi everyone. Welcome to our second class on the mind of freedom. So I wanted to start this evening with a little bit of a recap from what we talked about last week. We're exploring the Buddha's description of what a mind that is free, that has released greed, aversion, and delusion, this definition of the freedom of mind that's possible with our practice. So we're exploring several suttas¹ in relationship to this topic and what we explored last week was kind of more on the side of how do our minds usually relate to experience. So that was the teaching in the Honeyball Sutta.

I want to just review briefly that teaching that we talked about last week and then elaborate a little bit more on on the pithy teaching that the Buddha offered in that suta. So if you'll remember this suta, the Honeyball Sutta started with a conversation between the Buddha and someone and the Buddha gave this like one-line teaching that the person just didn't understand and he kind of walked off in kind of a huff. And it was a very opaque kind of teaching because when his students, when he went back and talked to his own students and told them what he had said to this person, they said, "Well, can you elaborate? We don't get that too well." And so he gave another kind of teaching, slightly longer, and after that one, they kind of puzzled that one out for a little bit and the Buddha went off to to meditate and they realized, "Well, we don't understand this one either. We need to ask somebody about this one."

And so we reviewed that third elaboration last time and I'll read that piece. So this is how we, this is a the piece of the teaching that describes how we typically relate to sense experience: "Dependent on the eye and forms, eye consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition there is feeling. What one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one thinks about. What one thinks about, that one mentally proliferates. With what one has mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation set one with respect to past, future, and present forms cognizable through the eye." So that that teaching describes what typically happens for us when we see a sight, when we hear a sound.

So there's this process that happens, some of which is processes that are very ordinary, just what happens when a sight hits the eye. There's that contact with the the light wave and the the eye, the the retina, and then there's a consciousness that arises and then there's that, that's contact. And then there's a feeling. From from that point of the of the moment of contact, there's a feeling. It may be pleasant, unpleasant or neither pleasant nor unpleasant. Also, simultaneously with that feeling, it's said that these two come together, there's a perception, there's a recognition of what that that sight is or sound or smell or taste or touch, all of the sense bases here. So there's the the eye and the form, the eye consciousness, the contact, and then there's feeling and perception. Perception is that recognition of what of what's happening. So perception, as we talked we talked about perception quite a bit last time.

So just a tiny little recap here. Perception has kind of layers to it. It might be as simple as recognizing that that you're seeing, you know, just that there's a sight coming into the eye. And then it might get a little more um refined. You might notice the form and the color. Then you might notice an object. You might kind of, you know, look across the room and you what you see, what we, this happens so fast, you know, we see like a picture on the wall and we know it as a picture. But there's a whole bunch of processes in there, you know, there's the the the seeing of a site, there's a kind of recognizing square with color, and then there's it kind of comes into to shape as a picture. So all of that's in the process of perception, the recognition of what is seen, heard, um smelled, sensed.

So all of that is a process of perception and then following perception, this ordinary way, the way we usually relate to experiences, we don't just know that we've perceived something. We start thinking about it. We start thinking about the kind of picture. We start thinking about whose picture it is. We start thinking about what it means or how it affects me. So there's all thinking that begins and then there's the process of proliferation or papanca². We also spent quite a bit of time with that word. The the process of kind of it it it can mean kind of two things. It can mean either a a mental proliferation where the mind just starts to run amok with thoughts, not just simple, "Oh, that's a picture. This is what it you know, this is what it represents," but you know, the the kind of the idea of whose picture is it and what does it mean for me? What does it say about me? What does it say about someone else? So there's there's all kinds of ideas about me and other, self and other, that begin to get born and that is where uh papanca kind of begins to to uh happen.

Papanca seems to be connected with this separation of experience of self and other, even if it's as simple as me observing a picture. It doesn't have there doesn't have to be somebody else in the room. So this is uh this is a typical process. This is typically what happens when we meet sense experience. This happens kind of automatically without our even you know trying to to do it. It's just the way our minds are conditioned. So from that mental proliferation, self, other, what it means to me, what it means to about myself, what it means about somebody else, then further perceptions, further ideas are shaped based on that perspective, that perspective of me, of who I am, of what I do, of how I think and feel. What I'm thinking and feeling now affects how I am receiving experience in the next moment. And so this filter of papanca affects our future perceptions or or the next perception. It it affects the next perception. It affects the next ideas, the next thoughts, and so it it tumbles onward in this way.

So this is our normal way of relating to experience. Now, in the um the Honeyball Sutta then, I'll bring this up so you can see this piece. Okay, so this is the Buddha's second teaching. Get rid of that guy. See if I can just get... so about in here, this paragraph eight is the um is the teaching that that the Buddha gives the second time. So I want to just go through this a little bit. This this paragraph is a slightly elaborated teaching on what he told to that first person that walked off in a huff. "As to the source through which perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation" - so the perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation is that process I just described that based on what what we have proliferated about ourselves and others, further perceptions, further ideas arise. So our perceptions are affected by this perspective, by by the the process of selfing and othering and creating ideas or beliefs or views or what's happening around us.

So that's that process of perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation. "So as to the source through which perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset one, if nothing is found there to delight in, welcome, and hold to" - so if there is not craving or clinging to the source from which perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation start. So what is that source? That source for papanca, what is the source for papanca? Well, that um paragraph that we went through just a moment ago describes that papanca arises in dependence on normal sense contact. Arises in dependence on feeling and perception and thinking and then papanca. So the the source of the papanca is this basic process of our body and mind.

So if nothing is found to delight in in the basic processes of body and mind, not cling to, not crave, "then this is the end of the underlying tendency to lust, aversion, views, doubt, conceit, desire for being, of the underlying tendency to ignorance. It's the end of resorting to rods and weapons, of quarrels, brawls, disputes, recrimination, malicious words, and false speech. Here these evil unwholesome states cease without remainder." And so the the Buddha's pointing here to craving and clinging to the basic processes of body and mind is the source for all of this mess: greed, aversion, delusion, views, doubt, conceit, brawls, weapons, rods and weapons, recrimination, malicious words, all of that stops once there is the letting go of craving or clinging to the basic processes of body and mind.

So that's what that, that's my understanding, one way to understand that paragraph. Then if we go back to the first pithy quote which is up here, "Perceptions no more underlie that Brahman who abides detached from sensual pleasures, without perplexity, shorn of worry, free from craving for any kind of being." So in that pithy statement, the Buddha is pointing much more directly to the misunderstanding and clinging around perception itself. It's so easy, so quick for the mind to take what we're perceiving to be reality that it it happens so fast. I mean, like we we think about papanca about, you know, maybe papanca being a whole bunch of processes of mind that kind of run amok, but it's such a simple, deep process that has us believe that what we are perceiving is actually what is happening.

What we are perceiving, and we talked about this some last week also, what we are perceiving is only what our minds have constructed. We are perceiving what our minds have constructed. We can't actually perceive what is actually out there. So perception is, um, when we can understand that perception is this process of mind and that it is very prone to error. It's prone to misunderstanding. We went through the snake and rope analogy last time, you know, of of um looking at a a wound coiled form and mistaking it for a snake. But then when we look again, we might see that it's a rope. So the first time we look at it, we are just assuming that our perception is correct. We think it's a snake. This happens all the time.

We are relating to our experience as if our perceptions are accurate. Now, I'd say that a good chunk of the time they're pretty good. They're pretty accurate. So that that makes it harder to recognize that what we are knowing isn't actually what's out there. It's something in our mind. So this is the misunderstanding. This is one of the key misunderstandings that, you know, papanca is that kind of belief that perception is what's out there, that that perception, it's a reification, this is what is out there. And so the that piece around perception is one of the key pieces to begin to understand, to begin to recognize that perception is a process of mind and that process, very prone to error and also not only prone to error, it's prone to emotional influence. How we perceive what is happening is prone to be affected by what our emotional state is. So if we know this, then we can recognize that maybe we shouldn't believe everything that's happening, you know, believe that we think we know everything that's happening. Let's put it that way. To um recognize that our perceptions may not be completely correct.

So I want to come back to underlying tendencies for just a minute. Underlying tendencies, to come back to this paragraph, um underlying tendencies to greed, aversion, delusion, you know, they may, the underlying tendencies are those deeply conditioned habits, patterns that tend to arise with certain conditions. So for myself, I have a pretty deeply conditioned pattern around aversion that tends to be my my kind of go-to um mind state when something's going on. I I I tend to orient through the lens of aversion. That's an underlying tendency that's been shaped through, you know, years of of how I was raised, what happened to me as a child, all of that, you know, the the that underlying tendency. I also, that we all have underlying tendencies to greed, aversion, delusion, all of these underlying tendencies listed here, we all have a tendency towards them.

But I want to highlight it in this way because it becomes easier to to understand what this underlying tendency is when we think about what we are, what we tend to habitually, you know, what's our go-to strategy for um dealing with things that are hard or challenging, you know? Sometimes um people talk about when you first walk into a room you've never been in, what's the first thing you notice? So for myself, you know, I tend to notice uh, "Oh, you know, there's that spot on the wall," or, "Oh, I don't like the way that color is is against that thing," or, so I tend to notice things I don't like. I tend to notice things that I'm averse to. Somebody else walking into that room might notice, "Gee, that's a beautiful um color over there," and and that may be more their tendency to to gravitate towards things that are pleasant, towards more the greedy side.

So we all have these underlying tendencies that may or may not be active in a given moment but they're kind of waiting, they're kind of they're kind of um there's a a tendency for those to arise when certain conditions happen. So that is what gets tickled by this mental proliferation. With that mental proliferation, that sense of self and other, these underlying tendencies tend to arise. So these two brief teachings, this one that's highlighted here, um speaks to if there isn't craving and clinging, then the mind is not, doesn't, these underlying tendencies don't arise. And all kinds of following problems like quarrels, disputes, malicious words, false speech, those don't arise also. So this is a pointing to what it might mean to have a mind that is free if there's no clinging or craving around the basic processes of our body and mind.

So that's a that's a pointing to this mind of freedom. There's no craving and clinging around the basic processes of body and mind. And then this one up here, the first short teaching, "Perceptions no more underlie that Brahman who abides detached from sensual pleasures without perplexity, shorn of worry, free from craving for any kind of being." Again, that's a little bit of a description of the mind of freedom. This paragraph here points, as I said, it points kind of to um craving and clinging to our basic processes of body and mind being the source from which papanca arises. So what kind of practices, what might help us to not do that, to learn about our bodies and minds?

So I'm going to stop sharing now and um the Bahiya Sutta, this is one of the um suttas that we're going to dive into tonight, offers some practice instructions for how to potentially just meet experience as experience rather than jumping on, adding adding to. So these these two teachings point to the absence of processes of that, the absence of processes that add greed, aversion, views. So how might it be that we can meet our experience such that these do not arise? How might practice help with kind of shifting our perspective on our experience? So I'd say all of the Buddhist teachings point in this direction. They, there's a a lot of different flavors of instructions of teachings that point to how to meet experience, how to shift our perspective on our experience.

The Bahiya Sutta is just one of these, but it's it's very nicely tied to this particular Honeyball Sutta in a way. It it it dovetails really nicely with it. So that's one of the reasons I want to go into the into the Bahiya Sutta. So we'll spend a few minutes on the Bahiya Sutta and then we'll try a meditation and then we'll um we'll have time for questions. So the Bahiya Sutta is a teaching to someone who had never met the Buddha. He'd never practiced Buddhist teachings. He didn't know anything about Buddhism and he thought he was fully awakened. And um he began to wonder that and it said in the suta, if you if you look at the suta, I'm just going to summarize this part, we won't go through it in step by step. Um uh that a relative who um knew him had been reborn as a a heavenly being and that heavenly being came down, knew that he was thinking that he was awakened, and that heavenly being came down and said, "You know, you're not awakened. In fact, you're not even on the path to awakening. Um but I can tell you somebody who could help you." So he told him about the Buddha. And so Bahiya went in search of the Buddha and he had to walk halfway across India to find the Buddha. So he was very motivated. I can say he was very motivated to learn from the Buddha.

When he got there, he found the monastery and the Buddha was out for alms round. And so they, he asked the people in the monastery, "Where can I find the Buddha?" And they said, "He's out for alms now." And so Bahiya hurried off out to after to the Buddha to try to find him. And um he met the Buddha and Bahiya said, "You know, I've really, I've been searching for you and I would like you to teach me the Dharma." And the Buddha said, "You know, I'm going for alms right now. This is not the time." And Bahiya said, "You know, I don't know how long I'm going to live. We don't know how long you're going to live. Will you please please give me the teachings?" And um he said, "You know, I'm going for alms. This is not the time." But then then he asked the magic third time and the Buddha gave him this teaching. So I'm going to read half of the the teaching that he gave him. And you can look at this in the in the document if you like. I'm not going to put this up just yet.

"Then Bahiya, you should train yourself thus..." The version I'm looking at here is the version by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Um it's on the third page of the handout. "...For you, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. This is how you should train yourself." So this is a pointing to a way of meeting experience. He says this is a training, how we should train ourselves, how we should meet experience. In the seen is only the seen. Just seeing. Just hearing. Just sensing. Just cognizing. This seems to get at the uh the to kind of get at the very place where there's the launching from seeing to feeling to perceiving to thinking to papanca. All of those, we'll go into that in just a moment.

So this um, in the seen is only the seen is kind of like a pointing to just meeting experience as experience in the moment, just the bare experience. Noticing seeing is happening, noticing hearing is happening, noticing sensing is happening, noticing a thought is arising in the mind just moment after moment noticing each experience. Other ways to look at this teaching are kind of like bare attention is a is a word sometimes uh used for this. Just with what is here. Just experience with what is here. So when the mind is simple, if we if we look at in the seen is only the seen and we're kind of curious or oriented towards that perspective, just knowing that seeing is happening, knowing that hearing is happening, if we're kind of curious about that perspective, then we're probably going to notice these other processes that are described in the Honeyball Sutta. We're going to notice that there's feeling and perception.

We're going to notice that recognition. We're going to notice that there's thinking about what we've seen. Those are various functions that can be understood as, "In the cognized is only the cognized." We can recognize, "Oh, perceiving is happening. Thinking is happening." That's turning the um relationship of meeting those experiences from kind of being involved with them to just recognizing, "This is the experience of a human being perceiving. This is the experience of a human being thinking," rather than being involved in the thinking or the perceiving. So even the papanca, even kind of a a sense of identification or a sense of self can be recognized, "Oh, there's a sense of self coming up," and that would be something else that's cognized.

So in this, my understanding of this teaching, this is my kind of sense practicing with this, how I've explored this in my own practice, it's like the this teaching to me doesn't say, "Try to stop seeing at seeing," because trying to do that would be a sense of self trying to do something. So to me, this teaching says, "Notice all the processes that are happening as they're as they're happening." So when there is seeing and and noticing the difference, right? Noticing that there's seeing and then that there's the feeling and the perception of that what is seen and then thoughts about it. So that there's the seeing and then there's the recognition of the cognizing. In the cognized is only the cognized. Recognizing perception at work, recognizing thinking at work, recognizing the arising of a sense of self as an arising of a sense of self.

Whatever is happening in our direct present moment experience, we can shift our perspective on it. And this is a perspective shift. This is a shift of perspective on how to relate to experience. We typically relate to it in terms of me and this is suggesting we relate to it just in terms of process. This is a process. Feeling is a process. Hearing is a process. Thinking is a process. That we understand experience as a happening, as something happening as opposed to either a thing that is kind of reified or a me that is knowing something. So I don't think of this teaching as being trying to stop experience at the sense door.

Now, there are some teachings, I think the Mahasi practice, the the noting practice is kind of attempting to do this in some ways. So this, some of you may may be familiar with this noting practice where um you know, as soon as you notice something arising, you note it. So as soon as you note a sight, you note in your mind, "seeing," and then you might note uh "hearing," and then you might note "thinking." And so the the process of aiming at, you know, to kind of direct the attention to seeing, you know, that that itself is a kind of a it's a mental activity. That process of noting is a mental activity that will need to be kind of let go of at some point. But in this in the process of the Mahasi practice, when you aim at something like that, you tend to take the energy out of the further proliferation into perception and thinking and and um identification. So to me, that's part of how that that practice works.

In my practice with Sayadaw U Tejaniya, the practice is much more receptive, just noticing what's happening moment after moment, what's what's arising, what's arising. This teaching to me also applies here. Not to try to stop the processes, but to recognize, "Oh, what's happening now is perception. What's happening now is thinking. What's happening now is an emotion arising." This is this is the, "In the cognized is only the cognized." We recognize it as a process. So I I I don't think we need to try to stop the uh the process of like to to stop it at seeing and not perceiving and not go to perceiving or not go to thinking. There are some meditation practices that that aim to do that. They're, I feel like they're pretty um they're pretty effortful. You're bringing a lot of of mental activity to those and there's a sense of self in that agenda too that ultimately has to be also released, that ultimately has to also be um seen as an as a sense of self doing the practice.

So this is a training. It's not something that we can expect to have like enlighten us immediately, although for Bahiya it did. He heard this teaching and, well, the whole teaching, I'll go over the rest of it in just a moment, and uh and he did get enlightened immediately. Um but there's another teaching that I'll share with you to another student, Malunkyaputta, identical teaching to the Bahiya teaching, and Malunkyaputta um did not get enlightened immediately. He had to go off and practice with it. So that's probably where we are. You know, we're going to have to go off and practice with this. Um at least for me, I've been practicing with this for years. So um this is a training. We we notice where we are adding things. I mean, even the adding, even the idea of aversion arising, when aversion arises, rather than simply being averse, we can know, "Oh, this is aversion arising." That shift, it's hu it's a huge difference. It's a huge difference when you recognize that. We can know, we can know that difference. So you, that feeling of that shift of perspective from being involved in aversion to knowing, "Oh, this is aversion that's happening," there can almost be a kind of a relief or release when we notice that. That is the shift of perspective that this suta is pointing to. In the cognized is only the cognized. "Oh, this is just aversion arising." That's knowing what's happening in the mind as a happening as opposed to being involved in that uh state of mind.

So it's a training. And then the rest of the suta goes on to describe the results of if you do this training. So the the rest of it says, the the Buddha continues, "When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then Bahiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is you, no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of suffering." So this to me points that the training, what we what we do is explore meeting our experience in this really simple way, just knowing what's happening in the moment. The result of that engagement is the understanding, is the release from suffering.

The result of that is the understanding, "There is no you in terms of that," not conceiving self apart as as something apart from something else. There's no you in terms of that. There's no you there. Seeing sees, hearing hears, knowing knows, feeling feels. "You are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. Just this is the end of suffering." Freedom comes with the understanding. Free this, seeing experience, this this teaching doesn't say, you know, um, "Okay, once you see in um in the seen is only the seen and in the heard is only the heard, then you should try to see not-self." It doesn't say that. It says it will happen. So the to me, this is a huge relief. You know, my job isn't to try to understand, to try to figure out not-self. It's to see experience in this simple way, just to turn the perspective towards knowing experience moment by moment. What's this, what's this is a happening. Notice when we get caught and then even notice that caught as a happening. You know, even that too is is a happening.

So this paragraph too describes the mind of freedom. The mind, "When for you in the seen is only the seen, in the heard is only the heard, in the sensed is only the sensed, and the cognized is only the cognized," the mind will be free. There will be no sense of self in there. There will be no kind of confusion about a sense of self in there. The mind will let go. Well, there will be release. So the basic instruction is really simple. "Just in the seen is only the seen, and the heard is only the heard, and the sensed is only the sensed, and the cognized is the only only the cognized." This reminds me of um the Satipatthana, the definition of mindfulness for each of the four foundations offers a pithy kind of um instruction that says, "One abides observing the body as a body." One abides observing the body in and of itself. One abides observing seeing is seeing. One abides observing hearing is hearing. And then one abides observing feeling as feeling, abides observing in mental objects, mind states is mind states. That's cognizing. Abides observing the cognized as the cognized.

So this is is also very um in line with what's offered in the Satipatthana Sutta, that very simple instruction of, "Abides observing the body is a body, feeling is feeling, mind states is mind states, phenomena as phenomena, ardent, mindful, clearly alert, setting aside greed and distress for the world." So this this teaching uh has a different way in to describe a very simple way to meet experience, this shift of perspective on experience, to be curious about it as experience rather than what it says about me. Now, I said I wanted to um point to another um teaching and I'll bring that one up here since you don't have that one. All right, so this is the teaching to Malunkyaputta and he asks for a teaching so that he can go off and uh again, he has to ask three times and um the third time the Buddha offers a little bit of a teaching before he gives the Bahiya teaching.

So this is this is um the piece that I want to highlight here, this um these two paragraphs here. So he says, what do you think, before he gives the Bahiya teaching, before he says, "In the seen is only the seen," he says, "What do you think? Do you have any desire, lust, or affection for those forms cognizable by the eye that you have not seen and never saw before, that you do not see and would not think might be seen?" "No, venerable sir." "Do you have any desire, lust, or affection for those sounds cognizable by the ear, for those odors cognizable by the nose, for those tastes cognizable by the tongue, for those tactile objects cognizable by the body, for those mental phenomena cognizable by the mind that you have not cognized and never cognized before, that you do not cognize and would not think might be cognized?" "No, venerable sir."

So this is pointing to how when we haven't had that contact, you know, that there's that that that lust is not going to, that desire, that craving is not going to arise with without that contact. So this is a little bit of a pointing out, you know, if if we can almost, to me this is a little bit of something to play with, like when there's something I'm reacting to, it's almost like, "Well, you know, if I hadn't ever seen this, would I be reacting to this? If I had never heard about this, would I be reacting to this?" So this is this is a little bit of a pointing. So right after that, right after he gives that kind of pointing, if you've never seen the thing, uh never thought you would see it, never, you know, had any idea about ever seeing it, would it would craving arise for that site? "Well, no, it wouldn't."

Now Thanissaro Bhikkhu points out, this is what Thanissaro Bhikkhu says, "It is possible, of course, to have desire for a sight that one has not seen. Strictly speaking, however, it is not the desire of the sight itself. It is the desire of the idea of the site." So it is the it is the idea that is being um craved rather than the site itself. So this is an important point for practice. We can actually see this happening. We can notice when an idea comes up in our mind, we think we might want the thing that that idea represents, but what we actually want is an idea. It's just a construction of our minds. So the this this is a little bit of a pointing to um I don't know, it's a little bit of a kind of a, to me it kind of like popped a little bit of a uh the idea piece around the craving. It really is pointing to the craving, the clinging are happening in our own minds. They are processes of mind. So they can be seen as process processes of mind. I'm going to stop that share for a moment.

Guided Meditation

Um, now that was a lot. That was a lot of words. And before questions, what I want to do is let this kind of settle in through a meditation. So let's sit together a little bit and um I'll do some guiding here using the Bahiya Sutta. So finding yourself in a posture that feels relaxed, at ease, maybe taking a few breaths for relaxation. And you might just settle in a little bit for a couple of minutes with whatever practice is most familiar and comfortable for you, whether that's open awareness and receptivity or connecting with a primary object such as the breath. Just letting yourself settle, letting go of the words, and just letting the mind come into a little bit of quiet.

You may explore, even if you're using a primary object such as the breath, seeing if you can turn the perspective towards receiving experience, receiving the breath, receiving body sensations rather than looking for anything. It's fine if you've aimed the attention towards the breath, but see if you can then aim and then receive. Receive the breath, receive body sensations.

As you settle with your experience a little bit, you may notice from time to time that the attention shifts to something else. The attention's drawn to some other experience. If you have the practice of letting go of that when the attention shifts, letting go and coming back to the breath, I'd like to invite you to explore allowing that shift and then just receiving. The attention has shifted to something, maybe a sound. Just receiving that. Maybe the attention shifts again to somebody sensation. Just receiving that. With the attention shifts back to the breath, just receiving that.

Exploring the possibility of just receiving experience as experience, as a happening. "You should train yourself like this: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the herd, there will be only the herd. In reference to the sensed, there will be only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, there will be only the cognized." Just a simple receptive attention to what is here, noticing experience as experience. You know, to seeing as seeing, hearing as hearing, and then maybe we notice, follow on a feeling, a response, an emotion, just noticing those. And the cognized is only the cognized. A thought just cognized, just cognition arising. Thinking. Receiving and recognizing what is received. If the mind goes back to the breath, that's just sensation arising. If a thought arises, it's just thinking. If a sense of confusion arises, it's just confusion. Just aware with what is here. Simple, a very simple kind of attention.

As we attune to a more simple kind of attention like this, hearing just hearing, sensing just sensing, we probably start to also recognize various other processes in relationship to those. A sensation and the feeling of that sensation, the recognition of it, thinking about it. All those can just be seen, cognizing. It's just processes of body and mind tumbling on. We don't have to stop the cognizing. That's very difficult. But we can, with a simple awareness, just recognize thinking is happening, feelings are happening, or perceptions are happening, emotions are happening. What is obvious in this moment? Receiving what's obvious and simply recognizing it. Relaxation supports this receptivity. Let experience come to you rather than going out trying to look for it. Experience will come to you. You don't have to go finding it. What's being received?

"You should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the herd, there will be only the herd. In reference to the sensed, there will be only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, there will be only the cognized." This is how you should train. And you might notice at some point the mind complicating things. Can you then just notice, "Oh, complication and other happening in the mind."

I'll end the sitting. I'll read Malunkyaputta's statement back to the Buddha of what he understood of this teaching. "I understand, venerable sir, the meaning of what you said. Having seen a form with mindfulness muddled, attending to the pleasing sign, one experiences it with infatuated mind and remains tightly holding to it. Many feelings flourish within, originating from the visible form, covetousness and annoyance as well, by which one's mind becomes disturbed. The one who accumulates suffering thus, Nibbana³ is said to be far away. Having heard a sound with mindfulness muddled, having smelt an odor with mindfulness muddled, having tasted a flavor with mindfulness muddled, having felt a touch with mindfulness muddled, having known a mental object with mindfulness muddled, attending to the pleasing sign, one experiences it with infatuated mind and remains tightly holding to it. Many feelings flourish within, originating from that contact, covetousness and annoyance as well, by which one's mind becomes disturbed. For one who accumulates suffering thus, Nibbana is said to be far away.

When firmly mindful one sees a form, one is not inflamed by lust for forms. One experiences it with a dispassionate mind and does not remain holding it tightly. One fares mindfully in such a way that even as one sees form and while one undergoes feeling, suffering is exhausted, not built up. For one dismantling suffering thus, Nibbana is said to be close by. When firmly mindful one hears a sound, one smells an odor, one tastes a flavor, one feels a touch, one knows a mental object, one is not inflamed by lust. One experiences it with dispassion and does not remain holding tightly. One fares mindfully in such a way that even in that experience, while undergoing a feeling, suffering is exhausted, not built up. For one dismantling suffering thus, Nibbana is said to be close by."

So this elaboration by Malunkyaputta of what the Buddha taught in the Bahiya Sutta to me speaks really directly back to that process in the Honeyball Sutta. Having seen a form with mindfulness muddled, not being very mindful, not being clearly aware, we get caught, we crave, we cling, we attach to it. Many feelings flourish within, covetousness, annoyance, mind becomes disturbed and that is suffering. When firmly mindful one sees a form, one is not caught by craving, one does not hold to it tightly. That seeing things in that way, even with the feeling that follows, suffering is not built up. So this is this is the the point around um not craving, not clinging to the processes of body and mind. That is how those underlying tendencies are released from that description in the Bahiya Sutta. So that's a lot.

Q&A

And um the last part of this is time for questions, comments, reflections on any of this. Yeah, Beverly.

"Um yes, so for sure I've noticed in my mindfulness practice this is absolutely correct. If you go about, you know, kind of go about your day and you you see things or you come in contact things and it it sets off a chain of thoughts or feelings and assumptions, for sure that that's that's suffering for one thing. It eventually is something that triggers me, right? There, one thing to another and that's been clear to me for some time. But while you were talking, I thought, you know, that's actually a very passive way to interact with the world. It's kind of like letting the world just kind of beat you up in a way."

Yeah, it's just what's, yeah, it's just, you know, because we're not we're not really like engaging in the, you know, what's happening. It's it's just right. So you said engaging and I thought, well, you could break that process by turning it around by being curious. Yes, that that's is a completely different way of interacting with the world. And so I experimented with that while you were talking. So I went around, I saw objects and I said, "Tell me about yourself." And it would say really interesting things, really simple things like, "I'm black," or or, "I'm square." Right? And and those are those are much more simple, simpler kinds of ideas. And um you know, and it's it's it's passive in a way, but it's not passive, right? So and then I then I thought, well, what if I had a thought and I thought, I said, "Tell me about yourself." What? And that was really powerful. And it almost seemed like my thoughts were solid objects, like there were ping-pong balls in there that I could deflect. And I became very fascinated with this idea and way of practicing. And if the question is, is is this is consistent with with the teaching, because it almost sounds too controlling to be consistent with the teaching. My thinking is is that it's not, that it's very consistent with the teaching. But I'm curious with your te...

Well, what I'd say is that you're you're noticing something that's useful in this perspective. Play with it. It, I mean, it's it's it's it's it's being useful for you. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's it's as I said, you know, there's approach, there's many approaches to navigating these teaches, these teachings. My tendency is to be much more receptive and just noticing, but it's very much like, "Tell me about yourself." Yeah, it's very much like that. Like, "What's this?" You know, "What's here?" You know, it's that curiosity. And I think the curiosity is a very strong uh support for this kind of exploration. It's like, "Oh, there's there's a thought. Wow. What is this like? What's it like to be a human being thinking a thought?" It's kind of amazing. So yeah, go for it.

"Thank you."

Thanks. Other questions or comments? The guided meditation may or may not have given you a taste or a flavor of this. Um you know, it's as with Malunkyaputta, it took a it took him a while. Um Augusta?

"Yeah, thank you, Andrea. I don't know if it's really a question exactly or not, but there's something about the, like the way they don't understand the specificity of the words in the Bahiya Sutta. And I haven't like looked at other translations. I just have heard it, you know, I might might look at a couple of translations, probably not, but it's an idea that arose in my mind as I heard you tonight, as I've heard you before in relation to in relation to the seen, the heard, the cognized, in relation to, 'there is only the.' And for me, I'm noticing that there's some magic in that word 'the.' In reference to..."

In reference. Sorry.

"Yeah, reference. So maybe another translation is 'relation,' who knows? Maybe that's what my mind is doing in this, you know, receptive awareness piece. And in my own habit of mind as as thanks to practicing with you, I've come to understand like, 'Well, I see the world, experience the world through my feeling about it,' right? And so this growing interest in my relationship and like this way, like, 'Oh, yeah, it's just the relation. It's just how this particular experience is feeling.' I don't even think that I'm, I don't know that I'm saying anything that's really clear, but I felt it tonight in the practice and I felt it at IRC when you were going to, in the same way. It's like some magic because all I'd ever heard before, like what I heard before in the Bahiya was, 'in the seen is only the seen,' and it it felt like this like really tight, really narrow, 'just have that experience.' And when I open up to, 'Oh, and again, I'm in relationship,' I know that I get, that's not the word, similar, there's a similarity to the words."

Yeah, what's the translation from Ajahn Geoff? "In reference to the seen is only the seen."

"Yeah, 'in reference to.' When I feel into my body, 'in reference to,' then it has this broad expanse of reference to whatever Dhamma is arising in passing. And it's like it's so much the way that I'm understanding Sayadaw U Tejaniya's words from you and I feel, I just like it's visceral."

Yeah, there's permission.

"Yeah."

Yeah, I I would really encourage you to look up other translations. I find it very useful to get, because we're not reading it in the Pali. I mean, even the Pali is, you know, uh who who knows what the words the Buddha actually said were. But the more we can get the different flavors of different ways that Pali language is understood, I think there's more that we can we can learn. So I will often um look at multiple translations of suttas to just get different flavors there. And there's, and I I like Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translation of this. It, the and the second part of the teaching, "When for you in reference to the seen is only the seen, in reference to the heard is only the heard, in reference to the sensed is only the sensed, in reference to the cognized is only the cognized, then there is no you in terms of that." You know, that that's a much easier version. "When there's no you in terms of that," so you know, that thing, there's not a sense of self coming up in reference to that. Right? There's no you in terms of that. It's just scene, the scene, just the scene. So there's no you in terms of that. When there's no you in terms of that, there's no you there. That's very simple. When there's no you there, there's no suffering. Um the language in some of the other translations is much harder for me to kind of parse. So I've really gravitated towards Thanissaro Bhikkhu's language there. It has been very um much more evocative of what seems to happen there. And the the language of, "There's no you in terms of that," it's like, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I understand that."

"Again, I tasted that also. Like, there's been the experience of that, right? Not just a cognitive understanding."

Yeah, that sounds like a nice thing to have happen sometime. It's like, "Oh, right."

"And the freedom, yes, of that. The freedom of the self not arising with like needing to make it some other way so it'll feel better."

Yeah. Great. Thank you.

"Hi, um I'm not sure I have a question here. Um something you said really struck me uh and I wrote that down and um I don't know, it almost feels like a koan or something to me, which is, 'We can only perceive what the mind constructs and perceives.'"

Yes, and it's kind of mind-blowing when we actually recognize that that is the case.

"It's right, yeah. And uh so you know, I the open question is, it's not a question to you, right? But the open question is, 'Well, what what will be perceived when the mind no longer constructs the perception?' When we see what is seen or what we, because right, um as you said, uh what we see occurs in the mind. It's not like we're saying, 'Oh, now I see the car itself.' You know, I mean, it's no, like that doesn't happen."

I think what what my understand, and I don't know if there's something like, you know, the Buddha's mind is unfathomable. We can't like, you know, know it, experience, but but what I have found useful in terms of thinking about this in my own practice and what feels useful in terms of the next steps is that when I recognize that a perception is happening, I know that it's a perception. So I mean, it's like the the process of perception is said to, I mean, it's it's said to happen. It's the mind will construct perceptions even in an, even in an awakened mind, the mind constructs perceptions.

"Just to interrupt you real quick, when when we, like the definition of the word 'perception,' it can be simply the color blue. 'I see a color blue,' right? But it can also mean 'view,' right?"

No, no, no. P... that's in, that's in the um...

"I'm just wondering how you mean it."

Yeah, perception is in the is just the recognition of the object.

"Gotcha."

Um it will be shaped by view. You know, the the view, the views are in the, the realm of papanca. Right? That's, you know, when a view is constructed, that's papanca. You know, it's like who I am, what I do, an idea, an agenda, any of that kind of thing is is in the realm of papanca when we believe it as um you know, some kind of reality or, "You know, this view is true," or, "This is the way it is," then we are seeing the world through that and then a p a further perception will be shaped by that view. So when none of those kind of views are happening, no views related to greed, aversion, and delusion, my sense is that it's going to be very different in terms of what is perceived. Um but but I think the the kind of the way in is just to kind of recognize that what is arising is an arising. So you know, that the mind is perceiving, that what I am perceiving is a construction of the mind. That is very useful because when we see that, what, because what we cling to, you know, we think we think that we're clinging to something that is actually out there. You know, it's like we wouldn't cling to something if we didn't think it was... cling, but you know, the the whole like, you know, mistaken idea of clinging comes about because we've reified some perception and said, "That's there. I can hold on to it." It's just something our minds have created. So what we are clinging to is just something our minds have made up. So it's it's a it's an exercise in complete futility because clinging to something our minds have made up and it's very fleeting, it's going to go, it's going to disappear. So you know, when we can actually see that what we cling to is something our minds make up, our minds stop doing that. So it's really useful to recognize these mental processes are mental processes. So that p feeling and perception are mental processes and then the thinking and of course all of the follow-on ones, all the ones that add all of the views and ideas and relationships, all of those are also mental processes. But the, you know, to to even recognize that perception, because that that's what that first um teaching in the Bahiya, not in the Bahiya, in the Honeyball Sutta points to, a misunderstanding around perception is kind of at the root of so much of our confusion, that we believe what we are perceiving is what is out there, that we are believing what's out, that we are perceiving what's out there, not that we are perceiving what's in our minds, what what our minds have made up. So that that shift of seeing that and when we when you see that, it's like it's mind-blowing to see that, to recognize that. It's like the whole the whole of the world is like in this mind. It's very strange. So yeah.

"Yeah."

So so what I just encourage is to to just notice, not to think about what, you know, what it would be like to not have the process of papanca, because that's really what kind of diminishes. The process of papanca gets weaker and weaker. Um and it is said that when, you know, papanca is gone, you know, that's that's the mind of freedom. That is close to the mind of freedom. So you know, seeing the the process of perception, the process of feeling, those are understood to be happening in someone who has awakened. So the Buddha was still perceiving. The Buddha was, at least that's my understanding of the teaching. There are definitely places in the suttas that mention that um you know, that arahants, fully awakened beings, still have these mental processes, these basic mental processes going on. You know, like the Buddha wouldn't be able to walk around India without being able to recognize trees and like, you know, rivers and things like that.

"Yeah, but there's nothing added, right? There's like a a a a depth of perception of those perceptions that they are, they are perceptions, right?"

Yes. Yeah.

"Yeah. Thank you."

Yeah. Thank you.

So we will continue next week with more. Um the the Kalakarama Sutta that we'll talk about next week, I think of as a as another way into looking at what happens in the mind. Just this question Nick was talking about, basically, you know, what is this mind? What happens, you know, in the mind that releases this papanca? The Buddha describes um describes that uh in that suta. So we'll come back to, we're in this terrain next week as well. So we'll we'll just continue. So I'm going to post again in the chat uh since I posted it earlier, um yeah, so of you may not have seen it, the the link to the um in this document that I've posted, the link to are the handouts that I've been sharing. So if you haven't gotten them in the email, you can click on that link and you'll have all four of those um all four of those handouts. So yeah, you're welcome to unmute and say goodbye and um...

"Yeah, thank you. A wonderful class. Thank you."

Thank you.